Covid Pandemic

[Forrest Gump]

England scraps plan for vaccine passport

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tions.html

[SouthSardiswx]

600 plus today cases seems to be leveling out.

[PortKells]

Read a post a while back questioning how people can consent to losing their freedoms.

Look at Alberta. They attempted a restriction-less world. 24 deaths yesterday. 1718 cases today. Hospitals on the verge of collapse.

This is why I approve of restrictions and passports. Not because I want them, but the alternative is worse, plus in the end you get restrictions anyways for longer. No government can survive overseeing a preventable health care collapse. People will be dying in Alberta of treatable issues. Surgeries will be pushed back which may cause premature deaths, disabilities, etc. What would you do if it was your job to keep things running?

And now, Kenney is apologizing and bringing in a passport system ( albeit less stringent for now).

I have a handful of acquaintances who had covid. Two have myocarditis, both previously healthy to my knowledge. Their lives are changed. One,my new co worker literally lost enough brain function that she couldn't work, drive, anything. If I couldn't work, play sports and music, or think straight, I'd probably be tempted to off myself. That would be hell.

I know others with various co morbidities. They live in fear. They stay home and hope this ends soon. Vaccines work better on people with strong immune systems. They've been incredibly effective in BC. The vast majority of folks using the ICU are unvaccinated.

those ICU visits cost us taxpayers 50 k each on average. Those people didn't believe in the science in until their bodies reminded them that covid doesn't care how much Facebook research you do

I've been urged here to consider the various reasons people would reject a vaccine. I've taken that message to heart. I try to empathize more. Yet you turn around and read you are a hysterical lunatic if you buy into the covid hysteria. It's a strange phenomenon. It would be great if that changed.

[Typeing3]

Surgeries or screenings were cancelled or delayed (for over a year in some cases) due to the lockdown last year. I wonder how many premature deaths, disabilities, etc. that caused?

A health care collapse will obviously cause similar issues but we're also ignoring the point that hospitals in Canada have had severe overcrowding issues for decades, pushing them to the brink of collapse on more than one instance.

Add in the wave of doctors, nurses and health care workers who left their jobs earlier last year due to covid fears and those who will be forced out of work due to their vaccination status soon and the problem will likely only get worse.

[Forrest Gump]

Surgeries or screenings were cancelled or delayed (for over a year in some cases) due to the lockdown last year. I wonder how many premature deaths, disabilities, etc. that caused?

A health care collapse will obviously cause similar issues but we're also ignoring the point that hospitals in Canada have had severe overcrowding issues for decades, pushing them to the brink of collapse on more than one instance.

Add in the wave of doctors, nurses and health care workers who left their jobs earlier last year due to covid fears and those who will be forced out of work due to their vaccination status soon and the problem will likely only get worse.

I can attest to the hospital overcrowding. Several years ago I got a call from my stepmother saying that she couldn't handle my dad's odd type of dementia and felt increasingly unsafe. So i was given the sad task of taking him to peace arch hospital where he was stuck on a narrow bed in the emergency hallway for over a week, it was brutal.

[Abby_wx]

I've yet to see any scientific evidence that vaccine passports actually reduce COVID transmission, let alone reduce hospitalizations or deaths. It seems to be entirely theoretical. At least we know that physical distancing, limiting group sizes and wearing masks does reduce transmission. Considering the hassle and acrimony around the passports, it seems like the "cure" may be worse than the disease. We should be carefully weighing the costs and benefits, including potential impacts on mental health and social harmony.

[PortKells]

I've yet to see any scientific evidence that vaccine passports actually reduce COVID transmission, let alone reduce hospitalizations or deaths. It seems to be entirely theoretical. At least we know that physical distancing, limiting group sizes and wearing masks does reduce transmission. Considering the hassle and acrimony around the passports, it seems like the "cure" may be worse than the disease. We should be carefully weighing the costs and benefits, including potential impacts on mental health and social harmony.

I mean these things are absolutely brand new, how can you expect it to be scientifically studied at this point? Look to vaccine requirements for other diseases that have existed for decades if you want to see the data. Also, first doses have been picking up quite heavily since the announcement here.

We know 100% for certain that vaccines reduce transmission, hospitalization and ICU. Why should we allow people to overwhelm the hospitals and prolong this thing for no scientific reason whatsoever? My friend has had her disc surgery delayed for over a year, can't work, can't participate in society. And now its delayed again, thanks to people who are prioritizing their freedoms over everyone elses.

Once again, none of us actually want a vaccine passport. I just want it over the alternative, which is that people get to just prolong the pandamic and exhaust the health care system unnecessarily. Our health care workers deserve a break from this.

[PortKells]

I can attest to the hospital overcrowding. Several years ago I got a call from my stepmother saying that she couldn't handle my dad's odd type of dementia and felt increasingly unsafe. So i was given the sad task of taking him to peace arch hospital where he was stuck on a narrow bed in the emergency hallway for over a week, it was brutal.

Absolutely has been an issue for a long time, no arguments here. Flu seasons and other things have been brutal as our population ages. Then of course there's things like the opioid crisis. This makes me even more confused why a small subsection of people seem so eager use the ICU for another covid surge when there are clearly many other things we need it for. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Abby_wx]

It seems to me that we're forgetting the law of unintended consequences. The unvaccinated are just going to congregate in places where the passport is not required or being enforced. What's worse, a single room where 75% of people are fully vaxxed... or two rooms, one with 100% fully vaxxed and another with maybe 50% fully vaxxed? Is there even a difference?

Speaking of unintended consequences... I'm fully vaxxed, but won't be signing up for a passport, so I guess I just won't be patronizing those establishments which require it.

[PortKells]

It seems to me that we're forgetting the law of unintended consequences. The unvaccinated are just going to congregate in places where the passport is not required or being enforced. What's worse, a single room where 75% of people are fully vaxxed... or two rooms, one with 100% fully vaxxed and another with maybe 50% fully vaxxed? Is there even a difference?

Speaking of unintended consequences... I'm fully vaxxed, but won't be signing up for a passport, so I guess I just won't be patronizing those establishments which require it.

Fair enough. The other option was nobody gets to go to these places so I think many businesses would still prefer this. I'm a musician and I havent played a show since early 2020. Without passports the venues would simply stay closed.

There were covid parties long before the passport system and I never doubted they would continue regardless. Soon hopefully most of the unvaxxed will have been infected and this wave will dissapate, so we can hopefully end this thing and stop having to debate about it.

I'm glad we have this place where everyone is being respectful regardless of each other's disagreements.

[John]

Lots of good points on both side in this discussion hopefully it over soon. Covid that is.

[Typeing3]

I can attest to the hospital overcrowding. Several years ago I got a call from my stepmother saying that she couldn't handle my dad's odd type of dementia and felt increasingly unsafe. So i was given the sad task of taking him to peace arch hospital where he was stuck on a narrow bed in the emergency hallway for over a week, it was brutal.

Sad state of affairs, but you're right on the money.

It's an issue that really started becoming a problem in Canada during the 1990s. Gotten some news coverage in more recent times, but nothing compared to how its been highlighted during the covid era.

And what is slightly concerning is that many are made to believe that this is just an issue that began due to covid, and not something that plagued our healthcare system for decades prior.



January 2013: Hospitals overwhelmed by flu and norovirus patients
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-he ... -1.1108376

In Edmonton and Calgary, the spike of influenza, influenza-like illness and gastrointestinal infections have put hospitals over maximum capacity.

Many Edmonton hospitals are operating at more than 100 per cent capacity because of the surge of patients needing admission. In Calgary, occupancy is above 100 per cent in major hospitals and over 100 per cent on certain medical units.

July 2018: Overcrowding in Canadian hospitals - a growing problem
https://www.itij.com/latest/long-read/o ... ng-problem

There are more such stories that have now become a routine litany, and not only in Ontario, where according to the Ontario Hospital Association’s own report at the end of last year: “Hospital occupancy exceeded 100 per cent capacity at about half of the province’s hospitals, and in some cases, occupancy reached as high as 140 per cent. To put this into perspective, the international standard for safe hospital capacity is around 85 per cent. Wait times for patients admitted through the emergency department were the longest during the month of September over the last seven years with 10 per cent of patients waiting approximately 32 hours.”

In the province of Quebec, despite a recent $100-million government investment to ease emergency room crowding, ERs are still as crammed as ever – the Montreal General Hospital running at 129 per cent capacity at times, with patients being treated on stretchers in hallways, lounges, TV rooms, or any space large enough to accommodate them. In other provinces, the stories are similar.

January 2019: About 1,000 patients in hospital hallways on any given day: report
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/about-1-0 ... -1.4276591

On any given day, at least 1,000 people are being treated in Ontario hospital hallways, according to the special adviser on health care, who says "tough decisions" will be required to fix the problem.

"Overcrowding of the emergency department means Ontarians whose care can only be provided in an emergency department are waiting longer to access the health care they need, and are sometimes waiting in unconventional locations -- like hallways," the report says.

January 2020: Some of Ontario's biggest hospitals are filled beyond capacity nearly every day, new data reveals
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5420434

Five hospitals in the Greater Toronto Area, as well as the main hospital in Hamilton, Sudbury, Peterborough and Niagara Falls all spent more than 160 days over their funded capacity during the 181-day period from January through June 2019.

CBC News analyzed data for all 169 acute care hospital sites in the province during this six-month time frame. Some of the key findings:

[*]83 hospitals were beyond 100 per cent capacity for more than 30 days.
[*]39 hospitals hit 120 per cent capacity or higher for at least one day.
[*]40 hospitals averaged 100 per cent capacity or higher.

[PortKells]

Vaccine protesters have now entered schools in salmon arm. Harassing students and staff. Caused a lockdown in the school. What's next now? A terrorist attack?

(Weirdly on the same day one of my students pulled the ****ing fire alarm)

[Typeing3]

Vaccine protesters have now entered schools in salmon arm. Harassing students and staff. Caused a lockdown in the school. What's next now? A terrorist attack?

(Weirdly on the same day one of my students pulled the ****ing fire alarm)

A lot of anger across the province and country right now. Both reflected in the protests and election campaign.

[PortKells]

A lot of anger across the province and country right now. Both reflected in the protests and election campaign.

Yep. People are fed up with these "protesters". Hospitals should've been an all time low but elementary schools will not go over well.