Politics

[VanCitySouth]

They are hurting working class people right now with the border blockades. I read that a woman couldn't cross the border go see her dying mother. There are livelihoods at stake in Ontario. They will risk losing support this way.

As for Ottawa. When I see videos of reporters being harassed, videos of non stop honking all day long, people being harassed for making their own choice of wearing a mask, including anecdotal reports of rape threats. people unable to access healthcare without harassment. someone trying to light an apartment on fire and shut the citizens inside (there is video evidence).

The citizens of Ottawa have done nothing to deserve this can't we agree on that? Or is it worth it for some sidewalk shovelling and PR friendly food giveaways?

I will add that an anti protester ran one over in Winnipeg and that person deserves jail time. I don't support violence on any side.

If they go home and wait a couple weeks, restrictions will ease as omicron burns out. Other than the border vaccine thing which is still impossible for the Canadian gov to resolve because the USA is mandating the same thing.

I'm with you and Rubes on this one. The truckers had a point, they made it, and by now it's just pointless disruption of other people's lives. I was strongly against the rioting from Antifa and more extreme members of BLM. I was strongly against CHOP/CHAZ. I'm also strongly against any sort of blockade as they are happening now. If consistency and decency mattered at all, we can't turn a blind eye to what is essentially the same type of behaviour just because we sympathise more with one message over the other.

Not to mention the oodles of Republican money behind this, which is clearly foreign political interference. It's disgraceful. As Mark Carney said on his op-ed earlier this week, follow the money.

Many of the convoy are actually being played as fools by the lunatics on the fringe. It's true that the vast majority were unfairly portrayed, AT THE START. They should now know better, and should go home so that they don't continue to get painted with the same brush. This is the same as it was for BLM a couple summers ago. They had a point, they made it, they overstayed their welcome by being lured into increasingly intolerable behaviour by a minority of instigators.

We know the political classes will always use that irresponsible tactic to divide and conquer. It's time to see past that so that us little people can set aside our differences, because until that happens, we'll never make a difference.

[Typeing3]

I have seen no data on the socioeconomic makeup of the Ottawa occupiers, and when the putschists who invaded the US Capitol were identified, many of them turned out to be surprisingly affluent. Sorry, not buying this “oppressed working-class people” rhetoric. Strongly suspect it is not generally the case in the way the movement’s sympathizers and adherents claim it to be.

Believe or suspect what you wish but if most participants were affluent they likely wouldn't be out there, especially for so long. It's much easier to solve greivances through other channels when one is affluent. Furthermore, somehow equating the situation in Ottawa with the situation at the US Capitol is quite the false equivalency. How can groups with the primary intention to completely overthrow the government be compared with groups with primary intention of getting the government(s) to drop lockdown restrictions and vaccine mandates?

On the other hand, let's also ponder that affulent socioeconomic point; in what world does removing lockdown restrictions and vaccine mandates even help the affluent classes? Hint: It does not. The lockdown restrictions were the primary proponent that propelled the affluent classes to not only increase their wealth share to levels never seen before, but do it in a timespan never seen before (see in the figure below). This, while millions of working class folks lost their jobs or livelihoods due to lockdown restrictions, and others have lost or are now losing their jobs due to vaccine mandates.

FKb7MouX0AA_LXR.jpeg

Frankly, I find the gall of the wealthy, upper middle class and - shockingly - even some in the working class who demonize or minimize (through no fault of their own sometimes - the media and government both spin stuff in a way to divide people to decrease any chance of unity) what much of the working class has had to go through in the past two years as really quite revolting. People living their comfortable lives, working their comfortable jobs, living in their comfortable houses, getting salary bonuses, massively beefing up their savings, etc gleefully engaging and participating in an effort that wishes to destroy people's lives? Come on. It's been two bloody years. Many lives are already destroyed and people are fed up, but still won't stoop to the level where they are happily calling for aspects of authoritarianism and segregation (lockdown restrictions and vaccine mandates) to continue unabated, a system that crushes the poor and many working class folks. Shame, shame, shame.

[Typeing3]

They are hurting working class people right now with the border blockades. I read that a woman couldn't cross the border go see her dying mother. There are livelihoods at stake in Ontario. They will risk losing support this way.

As for Ottawa. When I see videos of reporters being harassed, videos of non stop honking all day long, people being harassed for making their own choice of wearing a mask, including anecdotal reports of rape threats. people unable to access healthcare without harassment. someone trying to light an apartment on fire and shut the citizens inside (there is video evidence).

The citizens of Ottawa have done nothing to deserve this can't we agree on that? Or is it worth it for some sidewalk shovelling and PR friendly food giveaways?

I will add that an anti protester ran one over in Winnipeg and that person deserves jail time. I don't support violence on any side.

If they go home and wait a couple weeks, restrictions will ease as omicron burns out. Other than the border vaccine thing which is still impossible for the Canadian gov to resolve because the USA is mandating the same thing.

The entire situation is hurting everyone. We all know that. The past two years have hurt everyone. As for the media cuddling up to the few businesses who have shut in Ottawa, where was this sympathy in the past two years for the thousands of businesses across the entire country who were forced to shut down due to lockdown restrictions, many of which would never open again? Where was the coverage?? Where was it?? Oh right, crickets. That's all I heard. When thousands of people lost their jobs and businesses in this country, where was the media? How many stories will silently go through the test of time unheard. All I'm saying is since they seem to have so much sympathy and rage regarding a few business closures in downtown Ottawa, they need to cover the thousands of others throughout the country with similar sympathy and rage. Consistency right?

With the honking, that has now stopped so it's not an issue. If some people have been harassed for wearing a mask then I condemn the harassers. I believe in free choice, the ability to wear one or not without fear of reprisal. Similarly, if there were rape threats then I also condemn those who uttered them. That is disgusting if true. And lastly whoever tried to set fire to an apartment should be jailed.

I agree the citizens of Ottawa don't deserve this. Unfortunately, that is the nature of any movement. Honestly, it could be remedied at any time quite easily if the federal government and the provincial governments would at least all set concrete and relatively swift timelines as to when lockdown restrictions, vaccine mandates, vaccine passports will be lifted.

[Antares]

The entire situation is hurting everyone. We all know that. The past two years have hurt everyone. As for the media cuddling up to the few businesses who have shut in Ottawa, where was this sympathy in the past two years for the thousands of businesses across the entire country who were forced to shut down due to lockdown restrictions, many of which would never open again? Where was the coverage?? Where was it?? Oh right, crickets. That's all I heard. When thousands of people lost their jobs and businesses in this country, where was the media? How many stories will silently go through the test of time unheard. All I'm saying is since they seem to have so much sympathy and rage regarding a few business closures in downtown Ottawa, they need to cover the thousands of others throughout the country with similar sympathy and rage. Consistency right?

With the honking, that has now stopped so it's not an issue. If some people have been harassed for wearing a mask then I condemn the harassers. I believe in free choice, the ability to wear one or not without fear of reprisal. Similarly, if there were rape threats then I also condemn those who uttered them. That is disgusting if true. And lastly whoever tried to set fire to an apartment should be jailed.

I agree the citizens of Ottawa don't deserve this. Unfortunately, that is the nature of any movement. Honestly, it could be remedied at any time quite easily if the federal government and the provincial governments would at least all set concrete and relatively swift timelines as to when lockdown restrictions, vaccine mandates, vaccine passports will be lifted.

Because some people are addicted to the lie they have been fed from birth, and if they cannot escape that then all that is left for them is support the system that nourishes that lie and go against those who try to break those shackles.

Instead of trying to actually understand the world around them all they know how to do is hurl insults, hatred, and regurgitate rhetoric that they have been fed from their echo chambers.

Perhaps they (and everyone else) should ask themselves how the world reached this point? People need to realize everything is at stake right now, not just mandates or things like that. Every facet of human existence is at stake. It has nothing to do with partisan politics, economics, and other trivial matters. Thankfully, it appears more and more are waking up.

[Rubus_Leucodermis]

When I think of working class people who have been hurt during the pandemic, truckers have to be somewhere near the bottom of the list. Trucking is a vital service, and as such the trucks kept rolling during the pandemic. There is a shortage of truck drivers. Apply the law of supply and demand to that shortage and wages are going up in that sector. The responsible 90% of truckers who are not selfish *ssholes and who got vaccinated have not been hurt by the vaccine mandates at the border.

(And that is aside from the point that while this whole thing started as a protest by antivax truckers, it has grown to the point where most involved in it do not drive commercial trucks for a living. It is, in other words, no longer a truckers’ protest. If I were a trucker, I would be damn upset at being identified via my profession with this movement.)

The working class people who have suffered the most during the pandemic are the ones in industries like passenger transport, hospitality, and live entertainment, industries that (unlike trucking) got basically shut down entirely for a prolonged time.

[Forrest Gump]

https://youtu.be/6i72czkSUsM

[Typeing3]

When I think of working class people who have been hurt during the pandemic, truckers have to be somewhere near the bottom of the list. Trucking is a vital service, and as such the trucks kept rolling during the pandemic. There is a shortage of truck drivers. Apply the law of supply and demand to that shortage and wages are going up in that sector. The responsible 90% of truckers who are not selfish *ssholes and who got vaccinated have not been hurt by the vaccine mandates at the border.

(And that is aside from the point that while this whole thing started as a protest by antivax truckers, it has grown to the point where most involved in it do not drive commercial trucks for a living. It is, in other words, no longer a truckers’ protest. If I were a trucker, I would be damn upset at being identified via my profession with this movement.)

The working class people who have suffered the most during the pandemic are the ones in industries like passenger transport, hospitality, and live entertainment, industries that (unlike trucking) got basically shut down entirely for a prolonged time.

It's completely possible to vocally disagree with any personal health decision made by another person without vilification. Referring to all those who have not gotten vaccinated as "selfish assholes"? Nope, sorry, not for me. Even worse is that there are also some who will gleefully cheer when working class people lose their jobs.

Framing everything in binary terms (ex. left/right, vaccinated/unvaccinated) often does more harm than good. Individuals are complex beings and often most of their personal views and ideologies never neatly fall inside any of the political boxes or flanks. Aknowledging that, it's clear that one can be vaccinated but also be against lockdown restrictions and mandates and that the protest did not initially just consist of "antivax" truckers. Though I do agree that evidentially many people currently in Ottawa are not truckers. It's a far more diverse set of people than just that (age, racial background, employed, unemployed, job type, socioeconomic status, vaccinated, unvaccinated, etc, etc), mostly with similar greivances and messages.

Yes, it is extremely sad to see how many subsections of the working class have suffered tremendously over the past two years due to lockdown restrictions including the passenger transport, hospitality, and live entertainment industries as you mentioned. Small business owners too, and a countless number of other industries/sectors I can't think of off the top of my head. Every single one of their stories needs to be told and deserves to dominate the media airwaves for two straight years, just as the stories of the healthcare workers have because consistency is important! Lost jobs and lost businesses lead to a complete loss of livelihood meaning the impacts cannot be understated (hard to even begin to imagine or describe all the impacts for the most affected) and the collective mental, physical, social, economical health has been utterly destroyed for millions in this country.

[Rubus_Leucodermis]

https://youtu.be/6i72czkSUsM

First hand source:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8539610/truc ... es-ottawa/

I would agree that’s an unacceptable way for the leader of a democratic and open society to disagree with what some citizens are saying.

[Typeing3]

Pretty interesting 20 question political compass quiz: https://www.polquiz.com/test/

[PortKells]

Let’s tell Justin Trudeau and Doug Ford and all of the other coddled, woke Canadians who are hiding under the bedcovers, come on down and enjoy some freedom,” Hillier said. “Don’t be a pansy, have a pancake.”

Those arrogant f**cks. Im too busy working an essential job while dealing with a covid injury to enjoy your fake ass version of freedom.

[PortKells]

Mocking people for hiding in their houses. "Woke sheep" who are stupid enough to take this virus seriously. Guess what you bunch well foreign-funded freedom fighters. Millions of us have been sacrificing our safety to be out on the front lines this entire time.

Not once did I stay home and cower from the virus. I went to work every day, avoided all my vulnerable relatives. sacrificed everything I could to keep people around me safe. In the end I catch covid anyways and it's fucking up my life.

This Hillier guy deserves nothing but the worst. I hope he catches COVID at his pancake PR photo shoot.

[John]

Mocking people for hiding in their houses. "Woke sheep" who are stupid enough to take this virus seriously. Guess what you bunch well foreign-funded freedom fighters. Millions of us have been sacrificing our safety to be out on the front lines this entire time.

Not once did I stay home and cower from the virus. I went to work every day, avoided all my vulnerable relatives. sacrificed everything I could to keep people around me safe. In the end I catch covid anyways and it's fucking up my life.

This Hillier guy deserves nothing but the worst. I hope he catches COVID at his pancake PR photo shoot.

Bad day? I thought you were over the Covid stuff? Hope you feel better soon

[SouthSardiswx]

Bad day? I thought you were over the Covid stuff? Hope you feel better soon

Thank you, convoy John 22

[Rubus_Leucodermis]

Blockade Backlash: Three-in-four Canadians tell convoy protesters, ‘Go Home Now’

If the goal of the Freedom Convoy was to capture the attention of millions of people in Canada and around the globe – mission accomplished.

If, however, the goal was to build support for their demands to end pandemic-related restrictions – it has backfired utterly.

New public opinion data from the non-profit Angus Reid Institute shows after more than two weeks of unrest, Canadians are now more likely to oppose measures sought by protesters.

Overall, more than two-in-five now say Canadians say the protests have made them more inclined to support ongoing restrictions related to masking indoors (44%) and vaccination requirements to cross the Canada-U.S. border (44%).

As the country rolls into another week of uncertainty, nearly three-quarters of Canadians (72%) say the time has come for protesters to “go home, they have made their point.”

As to how the situation should be resolved – most feel the time for talking is done. Nearly seventy per cent either think local police need to step in and send people home (45%) or that the military should be summoned (23%). One quarter (26%) say it’s up to politicians to negotiate a dénouement.

However, those same politicians, including the prime minister and the leader of Canada’s official opposition, are roundly criticized for harming, not helping events. Two-thirds (65%) say Prime Minister Justin Trudeau comments and actions have worsened the situation, while two-in-five (42%) say this of Candice Bergen, leader of the official opposition. The Ottawa police and Ontario Provincial Police also garner considerable criticism, with more Canadians – and Ontarians – saying they have worsened rather than helped to resolve the situation.

https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-tr ... -covid-19/

[PortKells]

Bad day? I thought you were over the Covid stuff? Hope you feel better soon

It was a bad day. When I read quotes like this I just lose it. Lots of people have been safety working from home and clamoring on about other people are wusses hiding under their bed. Especially politicians bleating on about how schools were safe and there was no transmission happening here, which was never once close to the truth as I've found out first hand.

Still having chest pains, shortness of breath at times and heart palpitations. Very hopeful it goes away but right now it's persistent. Luckily it's mild enough I can work but I can't do most things I enjoy.

I still think restrictions should be loosened. But hospitals have to increase capacity and there's no evidence of that happening. So I'm not sure that just eliminating all restrictions and pretending it's over is going to work.

Also, thanks John I appreciate that. I'm glad this place has maintained a level of respect unlike most online discussions these days!