Covid Pandemic

[PortKells]

Yep self-sustaining communities really sounds wonderful to be honest. I would totally love that if it worked.

Not to get too off topic of course.

Sorry! I definitely swayed there. And sorry for calling you out about the guillotine thing, I know you probably weren't serious.

[SouthSardiswx]

Getting there! What's this omni stealth?

The next one up on deck Kells Omnicron BA.2 nicknamed Omni Stealth, it's overvtaking U.K. and some European contries so get ready for another one.

[PortKells]

Ironically I've seen that fact being mentioned by the media and government countless times in recent days. Also it would be prudent not to equate getting vaccinated with support of vaccine mandates. Obviously there is overlap but there also is plenty of non-overlap.

Yes I agree they should be accommodated. I personally have no idea whether many from any side also try to extend those beliefs to other causes that they many not personally agree with, though I'm sure there are plenty who fall in that camp. You and I seem to be among them, which I see as a good thing. Also just to be clear there obviously is no definitive answer stating whether everyone in X movement supports the right to protest but will not support the right to protest for Y movement.

On the first sentence, I didn't mean to imply all vaccinated people support mandates and restrictions, that is definitely not true. I will even say I think the movement has picked up some popularity since omicron. I just don't think the movement has picked up coherent leadership and a unifying voice. I've seen so many movements easily picked apart by the establishment that way and I don't see this one differing in any way. Think about the protests where they stormed health care centres...did that really gain momentum to end restrictions? It was foolish and incoherent.

Down south, they've basically ended restrictions. Things are all happening down there. But at what cost? They are close to matching their highest daily death tolls from last year. Imagine that. But the USA has other reasons for that - widespread obesity, lack of health insurance, etc. So maybe that's not a fact that sways anyone. I just think its very important to note that while we may be done with covid, its not done tearing families apart, turning kids into orphans and really ruining lives.

But I come back to the vaccines and I'm just not sure I get it. I know they aren't the silver bullet and they are quite a bit less effective than we would like. But are they not the best we've got? Are they not significantly less risky than taking a chance with this virus? Governments around the world want to get the economy jumpstarted, and pay less in healthcare costs. That to me is why they want us vaccinated, and that's why vaccines are paid for by the government - it saves them money.

Btw, don't get omicron if you can avoid it. I'm not usually one to complain about a sore throat, but it feels like I swallowed a swarm of asian hornets.

[John]

On the first sentence, I didn't mean to imply all vaccinated people support mandates and restrictions, that is definitely not true. I will even say I think the movement has picked up some popularity since omicron. I just don't think the movement has picked up coherent leadership and a unifying voice. I've seen so many movements easily picked apart by the establishment that way and I don't see this one differing in any way. Think about the protests where they stormed health care centres...did that really gain momentum to end restrictions? It was foolish and incoherent.

Down south, they've basically ended restrictions. Things are all happening down there. But at what cost? They are close to matching their highest daily death tolls from last year. Imagine that. But the USA has other reasons for that - widespread obesity, lack of health insurance, etc. So maybe that's not a fact that sways anyone. I just think its very important to note that while we may be done with covid, its not done tearing families apart, turning kids into orphans and really ruining lives.

But I come back to the vaccines and I'm just not sure I get it. I know they aren't the silver bullet and they are quite a bit less effective than we would like. But are they not the best we've got? Are they not significantly less risky than taking a chance with this virus? Governments around the world want to get the economy jumpstarted, and pay less in healthcare costs. That to me is why they want us vaccinated, and that's why vaccines are paid for by the government - it saves them money.

Btw, don't get omicron if you can avoid it. I'm not usually one to complain about a sore throat, but it feels like I swallowed a swarm of asian hornets.

PK how many people do you personally know that have died from Covid? And yes omicron sucks

[PortKells]

PK how many people do you personally know that have died from Covid? And yes omicron sucks

I only know of one person. 65 and comorbidities. Why do you ask?

[John]

I only know of one person. 65 and comorbidities. Why do you ask?

Just curious because you have always been concerned about Covid and one’s individual experience have an impact on viewpoint

[PortKells]

Just curious because you have always been concerned about Covid and one’s individual experience have an impact on viewpoint

My biggest personal concern of avoiding covid has always been bringing it home to my in-laws. They're not beacons of health. My mom and dad are also in their 70's and I think either could easily get taken out by it but I'm aware I personally can't prevent that as they live in Kelowna.

I also just find it concerning to have known multiple people with long haul covid. Its a disability. My whole life revolves around activities like sports playing music, living on the farm and so on and without those things...I would be in a bad place. I think the one thing I fear the most is helplessness. Dealing with a condition we have no knowledge of and no control over.

There are much worse illnesses out there and worse pandemics have happened. This is just the one we are faced with. I believe its almost over at least in Canada but I thought that before Omicron so time will tell once again.

[Typeing3]

But I come back to the vaccines and I'm just not sure I get it. I know they aren't the silver bullet and they are quite a bit less effective than we would like. But are they not the best we've got? Are they not significantly less risky than taking a chance with this virus? Governments around the world want to get the economy jumpstarted, and pay less in healthcare costs. That to me is why they want us vaccinated, and that's why vaccines are paid for by the government - it saves them money.

If money had nothing to do with it, there would be a widespread acknowledgement or acceptance of natural immunity which essentially has been proven time and time again to be just as effective as the vaccines, but there is no money in that for the big corps (i.e. pharma corps). Just for one moment if I was to accept the passport system - theoretically, natural immunity should be included if there was consistency and logic. As it is though, there is little chance of any of that and what we mostly see is regardless if one has tested positive or recovered from a prior infection, the vaccines are essentially mandatory if one wishes to live a somewhat normal life without loss of employment or segregation.

[PortKells]

If money had nothing to do with it, there would be a widespread acknowledgement or acceptance of natural immunity which essentially has been proven time and time again to be just as effective as the vaccines, but there is no money in that for the big corps (i.e. pharma corps). Just for one moment if I was to accept the passport system - theoretically, natural immunity should be included if there was consistency and logic. As it is though, there is little chance of any of that and what we mostly see is regardless if one has tested positive or recovered from a prior infection, the vaccines are essentially mandatory if one wishes to live a somewhat normal life without loss of employment or segregation.

My thinking on this is that by accepting previous infection, governments would be seen as encouraging vax-hesitant people to get infected, including the insanity of things like covid parties. That would cost them more money in the end. But I am not in the know as to why its not part of the passport system.

[Typeing3]

My thinking on this is that by accepting previous infection, governments would be seen as encouraging vax-hesitant people to get infected, including the insanity of things like covid parties. That would cost them more money in the end. But I am not in the know as to why its not part of the passport system.

Fair from that perspective I suppose. However I'd still say stuff like that kinda illustrates the ambiguity with things like the logic, transparency and "science" behind many of the decisions made by governments regarding this whole covid situation over the past couple years. Other examples of which include the outdoor mask mandates we saw in some jurisdictions, mandating the closure of small businesses while large businesses were able to remain open, etc, etc. The list goes on.

[PortKells]

Fair from that perspective I suppose. However I'd still say stuff like that kinda illustrates the ambiguity with things like the logic, transparency and "science" behind many of the decisions made by governments regarding this whole covid situation over the past couple years. Other examples of which include the outdoor mask mandates we saw in some jurisdictions, mandating the closure of small businesses while large businesses were able to remain open, etc, etc. The list goes on.

On board with everything you just said. Despite the fact I just contracted covid outdoors, I still believe that outdoor events should have been almost unrestricted.

There is probably some nuance to the big business vs small business argument but I'm generally on board with how unfair it's been. But that is just a symptom of a wider problem of economic inequality IMO.

[AbbyJr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUq4YCxYbjc

[PortKells]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUq4YCxYbjc

They stormed a soup kitchen demanding food and assaulting a homeless person. They desecrated a Terry Fox statue. They parked by and danced on the tomb of the unknown soldier. And they waved Canadian flags with swastikas.

At what point do they stop blaming the media and take responsibility for their own behaviour?

[AbbyJr]

They stormed a soup kitchen demanding food and assaulting a homeless person. They desecrated a Terry Fox statue. They parked by and danced on the tomb of the fallen soldier. And they waved Canadian flags with swastikas.

At what point do they stop blaming the media and take responsibility for their own behaviour?

That most likely does not represent the vast majority of protestors. In every crowd, you are always going to get a minority of people who are disrespectful and act inappropriately.

[PortKells]

That most likely does not represent the vast majority of protestors. In every crowd, your always going to get people who take things too far.

But...the convoy doesn't necessarily represent the vast majority of truckers.

Consistency is important, that's one reason why people are mad at the government. So Im trying to show you why some don't support this protest. It goes beyond mainstream media. That MSM argument has become a scapegoat, there's more reasons at play here.