Covid Pandemic

[SouthSardiswx]

Yup.

Welp Bones John says all is o.k. l believe him.

[SouthSardiswx]

The experts were wrong about herd immunity -- either that or they lied to us. We were repeatedly told that we needed to have about 70% of the population fully vaccinated to achieve herd immunity; a threshold that we are now well beyond in BC, with 76% of eligible people being fully vaccinated and 85% having received their first dose.

I have always supported a reasonable and balanced response throughout this pandemic while we awaited the vaccines. I agreed that mask wearing, social distancing and preventing large gatherings was a good idea at the time. But those were only intended to be temporary measures until the majority of people had received two doses of the vaccine.

Now it seems like even the experts have no clue what the endgame is. We're waiting and hoping that we can convince more people to get vaccinated, but we can't even agree on what numbers we're aiming for, or if it will make any difference. Then's there the issue of booster shots and new variants yet to be known. I'm sorry, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Are we supposed to mask up and social distance every time there's a new wave for the next who knows how many years?

It is becoming clear that COVID will never go away completely, and there will likely never be herd immunity as long as vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. It's time for us to face reality, which means accepting a certain level of risk as we go about our normal lives. We accept this risk every time we set foot outside. That's part of living in a free society. If one does not wish to accept any risk, they are welcome to stay home and never go anywhere, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can escape all risk. It's time to end these regressive policies that are bankrupting this country, contributing to wealth inequality, harming mental health and creating friction in society.

You nailed it Abby sr. Where's the transparency in all of this.

[Typeing3]

It's certainly disturbing to see how this pandemic has impacted wealth inequality. I wonder how many people have seen their dream of home ownership crushed by the effects of this government money-printing and asset inflation?

The rich and upper middle class got to work from home in the comfort of their big suburban homes, while watching their stock portfolios go up in value. Meanwhile, the working class and poor who couldn't work from home had to expose themselves to COVID and watch housing prices get even further out of reach. And now we're seeing inflation of goods and services also ramping up, which disproportionately affects the poor and working class.

Amen. I couldn't have said it any better.

It's extremely sad to see, but even more disheartening that many groups who should be against what the lockdowns have caused (i.e. "traditional leftists" - it's ironic to say now but this is probably where I allign best politically), generally continue to widely support them in the same form.

Such policies have only aided in greatly widening the wealth gap, destroying the poor and working class, while enabling the ultra wealthy and large corporations to rake in profits at a rate never seen before in recorded human history. This is something that the aforementioned groups should inherently be against, yet it is truly baffling to see almost the complete opposite.

[Typeing3]

It is becoming clear that COVID will never go away completely, and there will likely never be herd immunity as long as vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. It's time for us to face reality, which means accepting a certain level of risk as we go about our normal lives. We accept this risk every time we set foot outside. That's part of living in a free society. If one does not wish to accept any risk, they are welcome to stay home and never go anywhere, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can escape all risk. It's time to end these regressive policies that are bankrupting this country, contributing to wealth inequality, harming mental health and creating friction in society.

After a year and a half of what we have collectively gone through, facing reality is tough - the increasing aversion to risk I've seen among many just during this timeframe has gradually gotten more and more elevated. As you wrote and I mentioned before, fear and division ultimately only cause harm to an already fractured society.

At this point in time, the answer to facing reality for many has apparently come at a cost - ostracizing groups of people, and legally mandating them out of day-to-day life activities, which in a "democratic and free society" is completely contrary to the basic intrinsic values of what defines the term itself, when one basic tenet of living in such a society is that we accept risk everytime we step outside (as you mentioned).

Instead of simply gradually returning to "normal", these elevated levels of risk aversion - which ultimately stem from increased fear and division - has led to the recently enacted governmental and corporate policies, shutting out entire cohorts of people from participating in basic activities.

As a fairly cynical person, I don't see much positive hope for the future. Economically, large corporations along with the upper class and ultra-wealthy are removed from the poor and working class along with small business at an obscenely large gap never seen before. Socially, our society as a whole seems to be gradually shifting to something ideologically in direct opposition to what we enjoyed during at least the last few generations.

[John]

The experts were wrong about herd immunity -- either that or they lied to us. We were repeatedly told that we needed to have about 70% of the population fully vaccinated to achieve herd immunity; a threshold that we are now well beyond in BC, with 76% of eligible people being fully vaccinated and 85% having received their first dose.

I have always supported a reasonable and balanced response throughout this pandemic while we awaited the vaccines. I agreed that mask wearing, social distancing and preventing large gatherings was a good idea at the time. But those were only intended to be temporary measures until the majority of people had received two doses of the vaccine.

Now it seems like even the experts have no clue what the endgame is. We're waiting and hoping that we can convince more people to get vaccinated, but we can't even agree on what numbers we're aiming for, or if it will make any difference. Then's there the issue of booster shots and new variants yet to be known. I'm sorry, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Are we supposed to mask up and social distance every time there's a new wave for the next who knows how many years?

It is becoming clear that COVID will never go away completely, and there will likely never be herd immunity as long as vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. It's time for us to face reality, which means accepting a certain level of risk as we go about our normal lives. We accept this risk every time we set foot outside. That's part of living in a free society. If one does not wish to accept any risk, they are welcome to stay home and never go anywhere, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can escape all risk. It's time to end these regressive policies that are bankrupting this country, contributing to wealth inequality, harming mental health and creating friction in society.

The voice of reason! You are right on the ball!

[John]

It's certainly disturbing to see how this pandemic has impacted wealth inequality. I wonder how many people have seen their dream of home ownership crushed by the effects of this government money-printing and asset inflation?

The rich and upper middle class got to work from home in the comfort of their big suburban homes, while watching their stock portfolios go up in value. Meanwhile, the working class and poor who couldn't work from home had to expose themselves to COVID and watch housing prices get even further out of reach. And now we're seeing inflation of goods and services also ramping up, which disproportionately affects the poor and working class.

Perhaps there’s something to this great reset? The super rich get richer and the rest of us become peasants again?
The pharmaceutical companies are making billions of this pandemic so are many other big businesses

[Forrest Gump]

Now it seems like even the experts have no clue what the endgame is. We're waiting and hoping that we can convince more people to get vaccinated, but we can't even agree on what numbers we're aiming for, or if it will make any difference. Then's there the issue of booster shots and new variants yet to be known. I'm sorry, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Are we supposed to mask up and social distance every time there's a new wave for the next who knows how many years?

Here's the end game, maybe not so far fetched.

Screensho.jpg

[SouthSardiswx]

Here's the end game, maybe not so far fetched.
Screensho.jpg

[SouthSardiswx]

Perhaps there’s something to this great reset? The super rich get richer and the rest of us become peasants again?
The pharmaceutical companies are making billions of this pandemic so are many other big businesses

You nailed it to John.

[Abby_wx]

Many employers and universities are now bringing in vaccine mandates. People will be forced to get vaccinated or lose their jobs and not be able to attend school. Even as fully vaccinated person this creeps me out.

[moonshadow0825]

Many employers and universities are now bringing in vaccine mandates. People will be forced to get vaccinated or lose their jobs and not be able to attend school. Even as fully vaccinated person this creeps me out.

can I ask why this creeps you out?

not trying to be confrontational rather I really don't understand the concern given that the requirement to fully vaccinate is what stopped polio, smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella from being continuous epidemics (although measles is coming back these days due to people not vaccinating their kids )

jmho but we are the beneficiaries of parents who either did get vaccinated for these issues or made sure their children got the vaccines so we don't have to deal with those diseases in our own children.

[Canada Goose]

Many employers and universities are now bringing in vaccine mandates. People will be forced to get vaccinated or lose their jobs and not be able to attend school. Even as fully vaccinated person this creeps me out.

It's totally insane, unacceptable, well, I don't have words for that...

Reread "1984" from George Orwell. "Freedom is slavery."

[Typeing3]

not trying to be confrontational rather I really don't understand the concern given that the requirement to fully vaccinate is what stopped polio, smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella from being continuous epidemics (although measles is coming back these days due to people not vaccinating their kids )

Infection mortality rates

Polio average:
2-5% for children, 15-20% for adults

Smallpox average:
30% all ages

Covid average estimates per study:
Aged 0-25 = 0.002% - 0.01%
Aged 25-55 = 0.01% - 0.4%
Aged 55-65 = 0.4% - 1.6%
Aged 65-75 = 1.4% - 4.6%
(Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289900/)

Covid average estimates per CDC:
Aged 0-17: 0.002%
Aged 18-49: 0.05%
Aged 50-64: 0.6%
Aged 65+: 9%
(Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html)

Canada average death rate in 2016 from all causes (last year with a census):
Aged 0-24: 0.04%
Aged 25-54: 0.1%
Aged 55-64: 0.6%
Aged 65-74: 1.4%
Aged 65+: 3.5%
(Sources: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 1310070901
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-rece ... D=1&type=0)

Essential to note is the massive difference in risk - infection fatality rates of those diseases that aren't even close to the same scale for covid. Specifically the broadscale risk to younger populations; mandating vaccination in those age groups essentially accomplishes nothing.

In fact the risk to children is so miniscule that the disease has a infection fatality rate about on par with pneumonia/flu - compared with the average infection fatality rate over the last 10 years - for those aged 0 to 30.

jmho but we are the beneficiaries of parents who either did get vaccinated for these issues or made sure their children got the vaccines so we don't have to deal with those diseases in our own children.

As we know and the stats above highlight, estimated covid mortality rates compared with with average mortality rates are solely anomalous amongst older segments of the population (aged ~60+); average mortality rates from all causes for age groups under this threshold are lower than the estimated mortality rates from covid.

Thus presenting vaccine mandates along with the curtailing of personal freedoms as a tool to protect children is wrong when the risk is so low for them, as the stats highlight once again.

In some cases we've likely even gotten to the point where extreme heightened fear amongst children and parents presents a bigger threat to their overall health.

[Bonovox]

With all due respect Typing man, even with the published "low" mortality rate, if we had let Covid run rampant without any interventions, those rates would have translated into a lot of deaths.

I have no problem with vaccine passports, mask mandates and public restrictions. My employer has made vaccination a condition of employment by October. I'm quite pleased to be frank. Cue being called "blind" or "sheep" by a certain group of people in 3,2,1....


(That last point is in no way directed at you T3).

[Canada Goose]

I have no problem with vaccine passports, mask mandates and public restrictions. My employer has made vaccination a condition of employment by October. I'm quite pleased to be frank. Cue being called "blind" or "sheep" by a certain group of people in 3,2,1....