Covid Pandemic

[PortKells]

And now there is talk about employers making the vaccine mandatory.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mandat ... -1.5836153

No thank you. I'm firmly against mandatory vaccines. The reality is that nobody has the right to tell me what to put in my body period.

As far as I understand, they only need 60-70% of the population vaccinated to establish herd immunity. If so, then why not just make it voluntary given that its likely that we can reach those percentages by free choice.

This is a serious issue here. Its an issue of our freedoms. Its a violation of our human rights to force somebody to get vaccinated in order to participate in society such as going to the store, school, work etc. Nobody including the government and employers can deny somebody employment or access to essential items because they refuse to inject a substance into their body they don't want nor trust.

Now people say that if you don't get vaccinated, then you risk spreading the virus. True. But I'd only be at risk of infecting somebody who has also freely chosen not get the vaccine, assuming the vaccine is effective.

That said, I understand there are some people who may wish to take the vaccine but can not do so due to medical issues. Thus, somebody who is able to take it but freely chooses not too, could infect the individuals who want it but are medically unable to have it.

Thats also true. However, there are unfortunately risks in life. You still can not force somebody to inject a vaccine into their body. Period.

Somebody commented on the article and made a valid point. That is, you can not possibly test the long term safety of a vaccine that has been pushed in around a year. This is so true. Vaccines normally take at least 5 if not 10+ years to develop. There are legitimate reasons for people to be skeptical and concerned about this upcoming Covid vaccine. Those people have every right to reject it while still fully participating in society.

Well Jr. I respect your opinion very much and I actually don't disagree much. I think a lot of people share your views. So I ask this as somebody who only wants to establish consistency in how I understand your views. Do you extend that principle of bodily atonomy to people who seek things like assisted death and abortion? Or just this issue of vaccination? I only ask this because I've seen people express this but in another breath express the desire to restrict what others can do with their bodies, and that I can't reconcile.

[PortKells]

Dec 11th Covid-19 Update - Dr. Bonnie Henry says there are 737 new cases, total now of 40,797; 342 (-4) hospitalized of which 87 (+4) are in ICU; 9,589 (+65) active cases; 29,598 (+650) recovered; 11 additional deaths, total now of 598

[Abby_wx]

Definitely not a good trend for deaths, but hopefully that will level off in the coming weeks, as we see the new case count is showing signs of levelling off. I'm not sure how much of a lag time there typically is between new cases and deaths.

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[AbbyJr]

Well Jr. I respect your opinion very much and I actually don't disagree much. I think a lot of people share your views. So I ask this as somebody who only wants to establish consistency in how I understand your views. Do you extend that principle of bodily atonomy to people who seek things like assisted death and abortion? Or just this issue of vaccination? I only ask this because I've seen people express this but in another breath express the desire to restrict what others can do with their bodies, and that I can't reconcile.

I appreciate your respectful response.

First of all, I'm a Christian so my views on this are based upon my faith but probably differ from many Christians who also share my faith.

I should clarify that I believe my body does not belong to myself, but to God. Therefore, whatever I do with my body must be in submission to Gods desires. This may come as a surprise to you given my previous argument against mandatory vaccines rested on the basis that its my body so I get to choose. But please hear me out and allow me to explain.

In one sense, my body does not belong to myself but to God, but in another sense, it is my body and I have the right to choose what to do with it. My belief is that God wants me to bring it under submission to His desires. But I believe in free will, so I have to make that choice. Given the fact that I love God, my goal is in fact to obey Him and bring my body under submission to His authority.

From my understanding, the Bible does not say anything about vaccinations. I'm not aware of any passages in the Bible that command or prohibit the use of vaccines. Therefore, I believe I have the freedom to make the choice for myself.

Now moving onto the abortion topic, let me first say that the Bible does not at all address abortion specifically. This may shock you coming from a Christian. But facts are facts and as far as I'm aware, the Bible nowhere mentions anything about ending a pregnancy, at least not directly.

However, the Bible does clearly mention and prohibit the taking of a human life. Therefore, if one were to hold to the belief that life begins at conception, then based on that principle the Bible would prohibit abortion.

As for assisted death, I would also maintain that under Biblical principles, it would be wrong given that it is in fact taking a human life. Sure, its your own life but its the same thing. Its ending a human life apart from natural cause.

Therefore, the Christian who wishes to obey God and bring their body under submission to Him, would choose not to get an abortion or end their lives. But having said all of that, its still their choice. In fact, its our choice whether to believe in God or not period.

This brings me to my next point and that is, I don't hold unbelievers to Biblical standards. Thus, if a person rejects God, then I wouldn't expect them to live under the principle of bringing our bodies in submission to Gods authority. Rather, the principle of it being our body and therefore, our right to choose would apply. In other words, I'm personally against abortion and assisted suicide but I don't expect those who don't share my faith to live by those values. In fact, I am firmly apposed to the method of evangelism that seeks to force the Bible on people who don't want it.

I am so firm on free will that I actually feel it would be unfair to use any tactic to try to force somebody to become a Christian or to live by Christian principles when they honestly don't see any evidence for God. My hope and prayer would be that the whole world finds God. However, I believe prayer and showing love is a much better method of reaching people rather than demanding that they live in a particular way and by specific principles that they truly don't believe in.

So to answer your question:

Do you extend that principle of bodily atonomy to people who seek things like assisted death and abortion?

Yes, because I believe in free will. But those who are seeking to live a life of honour and obedience to God, would naturally want to bring their bodies under submission to Him, and use their bodies in a way that honours Him.

But to reiterate, when it comes to vaccines, the Bible nowhere commands or prohibits their use. Therefore, I believe even the Christian is free to choose while at the same time honouring and being obedient to God.

[SouthSardiswx]

Fantastic read Jr. thanks for sharing your beliefs and helping us understand your thoughts. I guess my beliefs are open minded not to the right or left but in the middle if that makes sense. Not an atheist but open minded in the sense that l believe anything is possible and probable. It helps me lead an even keeled life. Do l believe in god yes l believe there is a god.

[AbbyJr]

Fantastic read Jr. thanks for sharing your beliefs and helping us understand your thoughts. I guess my beliefs are open minded not to the right or left but in the middle if that makes sense. Not an atheist but open minded in the sense that l believe anything is possible and probable. It helps me lead an even keeled life. Do l believe in god yes l believe there is a god.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs as well.

[PortKells]

Jr. I really like everything you said there. Especially the part about not pushing your beliefs on others. Religion and belief should be a personal choice, and the traditions that come with it. I wish more people were not as aggressive about forcing their beliefs onto society at large.

Personally I was converted into a born again christian back when I was in my early teens at a sort of conversion camp. It only lasted a few days. I was praying and stuff and reading the bible but I just never really felt a connection. The only reason I converted is because they implied/threatened me with eternal damnation and suffering if I didn't. That's not something I think a kid should be subjected to. I know fear is the biggest motivator, but that doesn't make it right.

Anyways, when it comes to these vaccines, its going to be interesting. I think like you said that enough people could volunteer that herd immunity will be reached regardless, especially when paired with the natural immunity some already have. But I also think that legally, businesses can enforce vaccination before entry. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Qantas will require vaccination before they let you fly. I could see sports teams doing something of the like.

[John]

So when does this all end ? I am pessimistic today thinking summer 2022
I am sorry but to me this all still seems like a massive overreaction.

[John]

No reply that’s ok I don’t know what to say either lol

[John]

Just heard 49!! Deaths yesterday must be a record? Worse than I was expecting

[PortKells]

Just heard 49!! Deaths yesterday must be a record? Worse than I was expecting

Its about 16 a day. Pretty normal now, sadly. How come you're surprised? This is a deadly virus, especially when health care systems get overwhelmed and care homes get overwhelmed.

At least the case numbers have flattened somewhat. I'll post a more detailed update later hopefully.

[PortKells]

Well, might as well do a daily Covid Update, via Reddit Vancouver. If the weather turns favorable I suspect I'll be much more interested in posting weather model frames followed hopefully by playing in the snow. But for now its kind of like something else to track, even if its so incredibly difficult to watch. I've been trying to keep in mind the health care workers who are on the front lines. I've read a few accounts of how difficult the situation is in the Covid wards and elsewhere in hospitals. These people are human beings that have to suppress their emotions sometimes to do their work and that is incredibly hard. Anyways.

Today's numbers are I would say a mixed bag. The new case number seems low, but some of the other numbers tell a different story. Deaths are equal parts tragic and completely expected, so Its hard to say anything about it insightfully without being insensitive to those who have lost somebody. But 21 is one of the highest numbers of deaths so it is truly concerning to continue down the path off of even maintaining our current case numbers let alone risking a Christmas spike.

But. Vaccines have begun. That is insane. What an incredible achievement by the scientific and health community, as much as I've had and still have my grievances with how that industry can tend to place profitability over people's wellbeing. But I think it shows what can be done when urgency to solve problems matches profitability. Maybe this is a lesson in economics as much as science. Or maybe I'm talking out of my arse as per usual. Probably. Ok here are the numbers.


Dec 15th Covid-19 Update - Dr. Bonnie Henry says there are 522 new cases, total now of 43,465; 361 (+2) hospitalized of which 93 (+6) are in ICU; 21 additional deaths, total now of 668

10620 (+84) cases in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
27679 (+338) cases in the Fraser Health region
2907 (+56) cases in the Interior Health region
794 (+7) cases in the Island Health region
1368 (+37) cases in the Northern Health region
97 (+0) cases of people who reside outside of Canada

1159 (-37) active cases in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
7435 (-85) active cases in the Fraser Health region
813 (-19) active cases in the Interior Health region
82 (-8) active cases in the Island Health region
367 (-31) active cases in the Northern Health region

522 new cases / 6,521 tests = ~ 8.0 % positivity rate (Province)
84 new cases / 1,596 tests = ~ 5.3 % positivity rate (Vancouver Coastal Health Region)
338 new cases / 3,240 tests = ~ 10.4 % positivity rate (Fraser Health Region)

**Should be taken with grain of salt/factored into rolling average positivity

Northern Health is 14% (37/261)
Interior is 8.7% (56/647)
Vancouver Island is less than 1% (7/717)

94 (-1) currently hospitalized in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
184 (+1) currently hospitalized in the Fraser Health region
27 (-1) currently hospitalized in the Interior Health region
7 (+0) currently hospitalized in the Island Health region
48 (+2) currently hospitalized in the Northern Health region

20 (+4) currently in critical care in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
42 (+1) currently in critical care in the Fraser Health region
8 (+2) currently in critical care in the Interior Health region
5 (+0) currently in critical care in the Island Health region
18 (+0) currently in critical care in the Northern Health region

Biggest number here to me is the 14% positivity rate in Northern Health. That tells me the actual number of cases is potentially much higher than the reported number. They really need this vaccine fast up there to avoid the worst case scenario. So many incredibly highly valued and respected elderly people in these communities are vulnerable. Remote communities might not be able to distance or have access to what they need. Gah. Anyways, what we can do is either stay in our health region or take utmost precautions if we have to travel.

[AbbyJr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtEpmVrDVUc

[John]

Stay safe and be kind

[John]

Bonnie Henry said we flattened the curve again!! How much longer? Who knows