Covid Pandemic

[PortKells]

Hey guys. So Covid is obviously political but why not separate the discussion as it is just that important.
So I have here weekend update for November 30th, basically copied from Reddit.

New cases - Sa 750 , Su 731, Mo 596 2364 total over past weekend

23111 Recovered
VCH (8482)+ 371
FH (19428)+ 1365
Int (1538)+ 212
Island (571)+ 58
North (772)+73
Non-res (96) +1
#bcpoli @NEWS1130
BC's #covid19 update Nov 30
Most deaths ever in a weekend
46 death-441 total
80% lived in LTC
LTC/Acute-people affected (54/5-1162)
NOW - 57/7 - 1338 ative 847 res
Hosp/ICU (301/69) 316/75 (Most ever in ICU)
Active (8472) 8855
Isolated (10430) 10139

Daily death record, ICU record is obviously not great.
VCH continues to churn out semi reasonable case numbers. This doesn't surprise me, as I saw high mask compliance there long before the order. That tells me that people in the city are taking this seriously.
Fraser Health is going to be here for a while. Lower compliance, more "me first" attitudes, and other factors such as multi generational households, high numbers of essential workers. I do worry about Interior health as my 72 year old mom lives in Kelowna.

The school I work at had our second exposure notice. The student I work with 1 on 1 had his Dad test positive, but I never got a notice so I'll have to assume my student didn't. The stress of assisting students who aren't asked to take any precautions is making me extremely anxious and I've been drinking and stress eating a ton. Obviously the lack of a social life is more burdensome as we get into this time of year. I might speak for more than just myself here, but a December blast of cold and snow would just be so welcome right now.

Anyways, please contribute if you feel like talking about this ongoing world changing event

[Antares]

Sorry but "Follow the science" is a meme itself.

[PortKells]

Sorry but "Follow the science" is a meme itself.

How do you mean? Genuinely curious.

[John]

Hey guys. So Covid is obviously political but why not separate the discussion as it is just that important. Just one favour to ask - Please. Please. Pease. Don't spread misinformation on here. If you have an opinion that contradicts the public health authorities, great. But back it up with science and well reasoned arguments. This is too important to get your information from memes, politicians, or really anything other than science.

So I have here weekend update for November 30th, basically copied from Reddit.

New cases - Sa 750 , Su 731, Mo 596 2364 total over past weekend

23111 Recovered
VCH (8482)+ 371
FH (19428)+ 1365
Int (1538)+ 212
Island (571)+ 58
North (772)+73
Non-res (96) +1
#bcpoli @NEWS1130
BC's #covid19 update Nov 30
Most deaths ever in a weekend
46 death-441 total
80% lived in LTC
LTC/Acute-people affected (54/5-1162)
NOW - 57/7 - 1338 ative 847 res
Hosp/ICU (301/69) 316/75 (Most ever in ICU)
Active (8472) 8855
Isolated (10430) 10139

Daily death record, ICU record is obviously not great.
VCH continues to churn out semi reasonable case numbers. This doesn't surprise me, as I saw high mask compliance there long before the order. That tells me that people in the city are taking this seriously.
Fraser Health is going to be here for a while. Lower compliance, more "me first" attitudes, and other factors such as multi generational households, high numbers of essential workers. I do worry about Interior health as my 72 year old mom lives in Kelowna.

The school I work at had our second exposure notice. The student I work with 1 on 1 had his Dad test positive, but I never got a notice so I'll have to assume my student didn't. The stress of assisting students who aren't asked to take any precautions is making me extremely anxious and I've been drinking and stress eating a ton. Obviously the lack of a social life is more burdensome as we get into this time of year. I might speak for more than just myself here, but a December blast of cold and snow would just be so welcome right now.

Anyways, please contribute if you feel like talking about this ongoing world changing event

Hang in there P. K. ! The end is in sight!

[PortKells]

Hang in there P. K. ! The end is in sight!

Thanks John. You're not wrong. But its still a ways away. Just need to grind away the next three weeks and then see where we sit in January.

[Antares]

How do you mean? Genuinely curious.

For one, it is uttered too often in media, et al.

Also, as a scientifically-minded and trained person, it reeks of "anti-science" (crap, there is another meme again).

"Follow the science" implies following an established consensus, which is exactly the opposite of what true science is; which is observing, testing, finding faults, impartiality, raising skepticism, not shutting down opinions/findings/research that doesn't agree with consensus, and generally going against the grain if there are issues with it. That's not encouraged these days though.

Anyway, sorry for the slightly off topic rant.

[Typeing3]

For one, it is uttered too often in media, et al.

Also, as a scientifically-minded and trained person, it reeks of "anti-science" (crap, there is another meme again).

"Follow the science" implies following an established consensus, which is exactly the opposite of what true science is; which is observing, testing, finding faults, impartiality, raising skepticism, not shutting down opinions/findings/research that doesn't agree with consensus, and generally going against the grain if there are issues with it. That's not encouraged these days though.

Anyway, sorry for the slightly off topic rant.

This.

Unfortunately, we live in a society today where constant media catchphrases can catch fire almost instantly. Many who may constantly utter "follow the science" mantra (which itself seems like a cult phrase these days, ironically) don't really have a full grasp of what science entails. The entire basis of science is built upon the premise of posing questions of the status quo and encouraging debate; not constant shut downs and vilification of contrarian opinions.

[PortKells]

Interesting to read that following the science is a sign of being in a cult like mindset. I've always thought of cults as having one distinct leader, considered to be greater than the rest and somewhat infallible. Somebody who can do or say anything and his followers will support him/her (usually him). Science is kind of the opposite. In an ideal world it should be constantly self doubting, self correcting and trying to prove itself wrong. Only through relentless pursuit of new theories and explanations should the science ever be trusted. It shouldn't really have a "leader" per se, or a figurehead at any rate.

In the case of Covid, its difficult because the science is so new that its ever changing. So IMO we should be flexible to new ideas but understanding when it can't explain everything immediately. Covid is a novel disease, which is a huge reason why it is such a big deal. I've been reading a few different studies but they often emphasize how much more study needs to be done over time.

But I'll remove the part about following the science since that seems to be a sore point. I'd rather be able to have good discussions than argue about semantics.

UPDATE
Dec 1st Covid-19 Update - Dr. Bonnie Henry says there are 656new cases, total now of 33,894; 336 (+20) hospitalized of which 76 (+1) are in ICU; 8,796 (-59) active cases; 23,774 recovered; 16 additional deaths, total now of 457.
10123 (-16) people who are under active public health monitoring as a result of identified exposure to known cases

8990 (+140) cases in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
21478 (+408) cases in the Fraser Health region
1833 (+83) cases in the Interior Health region
639 (+10) cases in the Island Health region
860 (+15) cases in the Northern Health region

79 (-8) currently hospitalized in the Vancouver Coastal Health region
199 (+20) currently hospitalized in the Fraser Health region
18 (+3) currently hospitalized in the Interior Health region
7 (+1) currently hospitalized in the Island Health region
33 (+4) currently hospitalized in the Northern Health region

[Typeing3]

Interesting to read that following the science is a sign of being in a cult like mindset. I've always thought of cults as having one distinct leader, considered to be greater than the rest and somewhat infallible. Somebody who can do or say anything and his followers will support him/her (usually him).

^I think you misunderstood my point. Some who constantly rebut with the same statement over and over and over (in this case "follow the science") when presented with questions or contrarian viewpoints, can sound like a cult phrase...even when the premise of science itself obviously isn't cult; in fact its quite the opposite, hence the usage of "ironically" in my previous post.

Science is kind of the opposite. In an ideal world it should be constantly self doubting, self correcting and trying to prove itself wrong. Only through relentless pursuit of new theories and explanations should the science ever be trusted. It shouldn't really have a "leader" per se, or a figurehead at any rate.

^ We are completely on the same page here.

[Forrest Gump]

Here's my experience, the closest I've come to covid. My son lives with my wife and I, about 9 days ago we got a phone call from him and his girlfriend stating that she has covid. She had some standard cold symptoms and therefore got tested which proved positive, further symptoms later on were headache and loss of taste. By the time she got tested about 1 week elapsed so she only had to quarantine for 1 week. In the meanwhile my son hadn't seen her for 5 days so apparently he only had to self isolate for 9 days. They recommended not getting tested but changed their mind when they found out he works at a food plant , plus for us it would be good to know if he had it or not, thankfully it came back negative which was a relief, nonetheless still self isolated. My wife and I didn't need to self isolate, we were in the self monitoring category, so we could still go out,but it did seem somewhat complicated as we weren't sure whether we should babysit the grandkids. Then we heard my daughter and one granddaughter had cold like symptoms which sealed the deal that we weren't going over to babysit and both my daughter(teacher) and her husband took time off from work. Because of what they heard with our son's girlfriend they got tested as well, both tested negative thankfully . Now back to my son's girlfriend,her family all got tested and her mother was the only other person that came back positive,and she had zilch for symptoms. The end.

In the face of to mask or not to mask , it would be most interesting to know how many people wear masks but still come down with covid. I've never heard of such a stat but maybe such info would be too difficult to collect. My son's girlfriend would be in that category.

[AbbyJr]

The latest round of restrictions expire on December 7th. If our numbers don't improve or continue to get worse, whats next?

I hate to say it but I can only imagine the last resort would be a regional lockdown. I hope not but if they want to keep hospital numbers low, then there has to be at least some signal that the current measures are working.

Personally, I don't think shutting down all non essential businesses including indoor dining at restaurants and hair salons is going to do anything. Most of the transmission is happening in private house parties, where there is little enforcement of the current rules.

What are everyone's thoughts?

[PortKells]

The latest round of restrictions expire on December 7th. If our numbers don't improve or continue to get worse, whats next?

I hate to say it but I can only imagine the last resort would be a regional lockdown. I hope not but if they want to keep hospital numbers low, then there has to be at least some signal that the current measures are working.

Personally, I don't think shutting down all non essential businesses including indoor dining at restaurants and hair salons is going to do anything. Most of the transmission is happening in private house parties, where there is little enforcement of the current rules.

What are everyone's thoughts?

You know what junior, I’m on board with that. Regional lockdowns are only necessary when its literally everywhere. Right now VCH and island health have some degree of control and Fraser health might be showing signs of slowing down. Interior health is now the area of concern with a doubling of cases every 5 DAYS. That is scary for me as my 72 year old mother lives in Kelowna with my brother who is a line cook. Smaller towns have shown to sometimes be very fertile spreading ground for S-C-2

But the current restrictions IMO will most definitely continue. I just wish they would put masks on kids and stop relying on the unproven theory that kids don’t spread. I know of someone who’s kid brought it home and infected the family. School cases seem to be kept on the DL. Why I don’t know.

As to the mask topic...we need better masks. Those little paper ones are so thin and flimsy and get thrown on the sidewalk all the time . I wear a cloth one with a nose clasp and a filter in it. It’s comfortable and it protects me as well as everyone around me. The Canadian Government was way too quiet when they recommended this about a month ago. Their messaging has been inconsistent at best on masks.

[AbbyJr]

You know what junior, I’m on board with that. Regional lockdowns are only necessary when its literally everywhere. Right now VCH and island health have some degree of control and Fraser health might be showing signs of slowing down. Interior health is now the area of concern with a doubling of cases every 5 DAYS. That is scary for me as my 72 year old mother lives in Kelowna with my brother who is a line cook. Smaller towns have shown to sometimes be very fertile spreading ground for S-C-2

But the current restrictions IMO will most definitely continue. I just wish they would put masks on kids and stop relying on the unproven theory that kids don’t spread. I know of someone who’s kid brought it home and infected the family. School cases seem to be kept on the DL. Why I don’t know.

As to the mask topic...we need better masks. Those little paper ones are so thin and flimsy and get thrown on the sidewalk all the time . I wear a cloth one with a nose clasp and a filter in it. It’s comfortable and it protects me as well as everyone around me. The Canadian Government was way too quiet when they recommended this about a month ago. Their messaging has been inconsistent at best on masks.

As far as I understand, masks are mandatory in school hallways and busses. But they aren't mandatory in classrooms. I assume because the tables are spread out six feet apart. To be honest, some people can not wear a mask and to expect a young kid to wear one all day when trying to learn, is unrealistic. That has been Dr. Bonnie Henry's point all along if I understand correctly. I have a hard enough time doing my janitorial job with a mask on let alone a young kid trying to do school work. There does need to be a balance somewhere.

[PortKells]

As far as I understand, masks are mandatory in school hallways and busses. But they aren't mandatory in classrooms. I assume because the tables are spread out six feet apart. To be honest, some people can not wear a mask and to expect a young kid to wear one all day when trying to learn, is unrealistic. That has been Dr. Bonnie Henry's point all along if I understand correctly. I have a hard enough time doing my janitorial job with a mask on let alone a young kid trying to do school work. There does need to be a balance somewhere.

I wear a mask all day every day at work. Its not fun or ideal but if asymptomatic spread is the problem then I think kids would be willing if you explained to them they can help keep their grandparents alive. Also a quick note, kids are not 6 feet apart and distancing is rarely possible. A teacher in surrey had a close brush with death thanks to these policies. I dont think thats fair.

[PortKells]

Oh my. The USA is at 2000 deaths ALREADY today with many still to report. That coupled with the Thanksgiving spike is getting to be very intense. I don't know what to say about the USA right now. They need that vaccine asap.